Is the game leaning towards PTW? Discussion!

Want to discuss the game? Post here!
Post Reply
User avatar
Gawerty
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:07 am
Location: Tennessee

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:24 pm

So, I've been talking with a few friends, and lately, it seems like, with the onset of new content, and maps, and monthly tournaments/auctions, etc. That certain players have a HUGE advantage over other players outside of the normal "He's played longer than I have therefore he is better than I am" formula.

The surprise boxes, while they are nice (and trust me, as someone who has bought MULTIPLE amounts of them, they are nice.) have a very unfair advantage when purchased. Look at it like this, these boxes have items that can't be obtained ANYWHERE else in the game. When you get a rare TM or Held Item that someone who isn't or can't purchase these boxes is unable to get, and then are able to use said items/TMs in tournaments and the like, they immediately have obtained an unfair advantage. Pay to win.

You could argue of course that "They paid money, they should get some sort of compensation" - and that's completely, 100% true, but they shouldn't get compensation in the form of an advantage over others for the amount of money they have spent.

Just wanted to start a discussion on this; personally, I feel like if the held item isn't obtainable anywhere else ingame, that it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments, and I also feel like if the TM isn't anywhere ingame except for boxes that after this months tournament, it shouldn't be allowed in future tournaments UNLESS it can be obtained by someone who isn't surprise box diving to get it.

I'm not one for allowing an advantage over others by how much I have or haven't spent.

That's what ruins economies within communities, very quickly.

Discuss; cheers.
Even if the morrow is barren of promises, nothing shall forestall my return.

Gradiusic
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:34 am

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:29 pm

I completely agree, as a non-donator I feel at a disadvantage compared to other players who can simply purchase these TMs like sludge bomb. Now you may bring up the argument that I could buy these TMs from donators within the game, but that assumes that the donator is willing to selling it and it also assumes I have the money to afford these exclusive items.

User avatar
Dusk
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:53 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:06 am

I agree with items that cannot be obtained outside of surprise boxes - if you cannot get them in the game already (through natural means as an item drop or in-game money shop), they shouldn't be available. It's already unfair enough having surprise boxes at all as someone such as myself who bought 10 boxes has an immediate advantage over other people. If I were to sell all the items I purchased to other players I would instantly gain over 100k F without any time put into the game which would then allow me to buy rare Pokémon to save me time or spend it on things like Poké Balls and never have to worry about money again.

I understand that these boxes are probably the main income that developers get which is why I'm ok having them but I feel like they should only be able to give items already obtainable in-game.

In saying that though I feel like unless there is an alternative we shouldn't just criticise the developers for doing their best, which is why I'll mention a possible solution. Keep items like boosts, cosmetic items, storage boxes and ATM access in the shop and remove storage boxes altogether. I feel like this will initially significantly reduce the amount of profit gained from the game however the token shop is limitless with what other things it can offer to bring customers in. Some ideas are:

- More player customisation (possibly even surprise boxes that only give players cosmetics)
- Ability to buy ability capsules with tokens
- Ability to buy crew charters or crew startup packs (This will incentivise people to use real money to start crews in order to avoid paying 20,000F and as a way to bypass the 3 badge rule)
- Ability to purchase SP refund items (lets you refund all the SP in a Pokémon so you can respec or fix a mistake) - I can imagine this becoming a big revenue raiser
- Ability to change your players name with tokens (or possibly a Pokémon's)

This list was thought of in about 5 minutes so I'm sure if people were to sit down and properly think things through the token shop could become a goldmine without making the game P2W.
Join the discussion: http://discord.gg/7UeNF6n

Image

User avatar
Gawerty
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:07 am
Location: Tennessee

Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:10 pm

I agree in full with the suggestions Dusk has put forward, this would help to balance the community in the future and also make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
Even if the morrow is barren of promises, nothing shall forestall my return.

User avatar
Haunt
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:54 pm

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:11 am

+1
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Avengedz
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:25 pm

Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:43 am

Honestly, Surprise box items are traded for cheap at this moment (3k to 25k), which is like 5mins to 60-70mins to get.

It's probably the most fair shop i've seem on any game, easy to buy from another player, and not REAL advatages like ability capsule, or special pokes.

That's said, it's truly give a advantage (Not as big as you all think IMO) to whom who buy surprises boxes and stuff, but honestly without this advantage know one would buy it.

Even now $2 for 5-10 max elixir can be costly.

SP refund would ruin the game tho.

User avatar
bookkun
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:37 am

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:27 pm

Yes but if these items are being received through the boxes, I am sure some of the players are going to sell those items instead meaning they will be available to people who do not donate as well, correct? Someone mentioned in the first reply that they may not be able to afford buying them off players, but unfortunately that is just basic economics lol. It's no different than someone not being able to buy the donations themselves. If you cannot afford something, you can simply save up for it whether it's cash or in game currency.

On the other hand, I think personally it could be nice to have the items you obtain from the boxes obtained elsewhere, perhaps for large amounts of in game currency or as very very rare drops or finds etc? This could also help to set a price on the items so the costs are more fixed and players have less reign to control the amount the items go for.
Image

Snehks
Admin
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:10 pm

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:46 pm

Most of the items in surprise box are available in wild. Yes there will always be 1 or 2 donator exclusive items (and they have a lower rate) which you should be expecting else it will become impossible to keep the game running as no one will donate to keep the servers running.

Having said that previous month top 5 richest players in game were non donators, and the 6th person (who was a donator) was far behind. This month top 2 or 3 (can't recall) richest players are non donator, and the 3rd richest who is a donator is around 300k behind them.

The game will never introduce items like pokemon boxes.

I have backed my answer with data and data doesn't lie :)

Also someone suggested
Ability to purchase SP refund items (lets you refund all the SP in a Pokémon so you can respect or fix a mistake) - I can imagine this becoming a big revenue raiser.

This is what I call a P2W as it means all donators can get their SP reset (since one can never identify when a user made a mistake)

User avatar
Gawerty
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:07 am
Location: Tennessee

Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:45 am

Snehks wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:46 pm
Most of the items in surprise box are available in wild. Yes there will always be 1 or 2 donator exclusive items (and they have a lower rate) which you should be expecting else it will become impossible to keep the game running as no one will donate to keep the servers running.

Having said that previous month top 5 richest players in game were non donators, and the 6th person (who was a donator) was far behind. This month top 2 or 3 (can't recall) richest players are non donator, and the 3rd richest who is a donator is around 300k behind them.

The game will never introduce items like pokemon boxes.

I have backed my answer with data and data doesn't lie :)

Also someone suggested
Ability to purchase SP refund items (lets you refund all the SP in a Pokémon so you can respect or fix a mistake) - I can imagine this becoming a big revenue raiser.

This is what I call a P2W as it means all donators can get their SP reset (since one can never identify when a user made a mistake)
In-game currency is one thing, however the wealth of players whom have donated or continue to donate is still vastly underestimated, I myself probably hold more TMs of worth than many players, I *chose* not to sell these however. (More due to my pack rat tendencies than anything though.)

The SP Refund based item is the same as a boost or anything else out there, someone will eventually sell it out to the public to make ingame profit, and if it were introduced in the game as well as a way for people to grind to earn/buy then it becomes nullified as being pay-to-win but rather, pay-for-convenience of time.

There are a ton of avenues for things people will pay for, one of which being, the ATM system, it's a great idea. Another idea I was pleasantly happy with was the PBO Membership released with 1.5.0 which lowers the cost of teleportation, another great idea.

These are things, that don't risk making a donator more powerful than a free-to-play/non-donator in the long run, I mean this competitively.

You've also got a wide array of cosmetics you could introduce that don't risk making the game itself in danger of long-term damage.

Data doesn't lie. I agree, and I will not refute that statement at all, however I would like it noted that paying for convenience isn't a bad thing as long as it is kept in balance. Which for a while there, it seemed it wasn't. (This was before a few more item drops were brought to my attention as being ingame.)

I just feel like, that while the game is still making a steady following, that there should be other methods pushed forward for people willing to donate.
Even if the morrow is barren of promises, nothing shall forestall my return.

User avatar
DevR
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:03 pm

Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:12 am

This thread brought out some very interesting and pertinent points, which is why I feel it's fair to address them all when making a post. With that said, here goes:

- Player customisation via cosmetic items: planned for the future, and will definitely be implemented, but only once we have some spriters or when Jiro gets time to make new ones.
- SP-refund item: introducing such an item, for donators or otherwise, is something that we've chosen not to do. Ergo, an SP-reset won't be possible, as things stand right now.
- Crew startup packs: really interesting idea, but it'll need discussion and fleshing-out, before such a thing can be made possible. Noted and will be considered
- Ability Capsules: adding them in the donator shop is, in my opinion, making it p2w - especially because we don't plan to make them easy-to-get. As such, having them as trades for real money is counterintuitive.


Now, to address the main point behind this thread - surprise box items. As of right now, most of the surprise box items are accessible in the wild / battle tower / in-game marts, rather than being exclusive to the surprise boxes. The only outliers to this, as of now, are rare candies and TMs. However, if you notice, all* the TMs that were available in July's surprise box have resurfaced in the wild / battle tower, i.e. they're accessible even without paying any real money. This will continue to be a thing, so that non-donators don't feel unfairly left-out. Essentially, the surprise box acts as an early-access ticket, of sorts, to these TMs, which become generally-accessible not long-after.

Nevertheless, if you've got any more concerns about this, do continue discussing them, and I'll try and address them asap. Also, if there any other ideas about what to put in the surprise boxes / donator shop, do feel free to air them. We'll always try and evaluate these suggestions, and any good ones will certainly find their way into the game (provided that they can be coded :P)

Good luck!

Post Reply