Crew Wars

Ideas on how we can improve the game? Please let us know.
DioKlau
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 9:53 pm

Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:50 pm

Crew wars are today the only thing to be done on PBO end-game, being the only reason for players to stay in the game, but lately it has become the reason for people to leave.
Since the extinction of 1337, Illusion has become by far the biggest crew in the game. They did a great job recruiting new players and they deserve the strength they have now. But unfortunately Illusion’s power breaks the crew war system. It’s sad to say that, but it can’t keep existing in the way it is right now.

One might be thinking: “Why others crews don’t recruit new players too?”

I could give a lot of answers to that, but you are about to understand the seriousness of the situation.
The currently crew war system has become a snowball, it is anti-competitive and far from be fair with the currently number of players.
I cannot speak for other crews, since I can’t know what goes on inside it, but I’ll tell you what I could see being member of Royal Phoenix. Doesn’t matter how much new players we recruit, there are only two fates for them: 1- Drop the game; 2- Start to help on CW, get hit for the Illusion’s snowball, and then ask to be an Illusion member cause he starts to understand that the only way to get tokens on the currently crew war is being member of Illusion. It happened, before, happens today and it will keep happening.


…the snowball keeps rolling.


There is not a way to fix the currently crew war, it has to be reworked. But for that we gotta understand what are the problems right now:

-Numbers beat quality
-Even if a fair environment existed, you depend on your lucky more than your skills to get tokens
-Alliances exists, really hard to get a video proof since no one records cw cause of lag issues, but it was witnessed many times
-Some players rather fight people instead playing a race to the base, and this system does not benefit them.
-Bullying on 70-90’s players (I mean the average level of Pokémon’s) by older players that memorized their clothes, making those players stop going to cw cause there is no fun in getting hunted for a 100’s every time.
-Stalls, not only players that takes always the whole timer to move but stall teams. About the second one, it is a fair strategy to win a battle, but is the opposite of having fun when you can’t finish one.



The rework I suggest starts with all crews getting dismantled. To the new ones a maximum of 10 players is given.
Issues that might come with it:
“More alliances will be formed” – A solution for that will be given soon;

Then it keeps with the second part: Crews with less than 5 members will now get 2 tokens per win, and will be able to use heal spots along the map.
Issues that might come with that:
“Those ‘PvP crews’ will be loaded of old players, so they might hunt ppl they know they can beat instead facing fair fights” – A solution for that will be given soon
“If they get the base too, they will get way too much tokens” – Try to get the base won’t be a smart move since will be harder to get cause of its low number, and even harder to defend against crews with more people. Keep fighting people will give them more tokens overall. But if they getting the base really become a thing, won’t be hard to stop it with some changes.

With those 2 changes, three of the six problem presented before will be solved.
But Alliances, old players hunting weaker ones and stall still remains.

So let’s go to the last part:
The creation of a Crew War Suit that will make everyone look the same, you will only get teleported to Crew War map if you are wearing it.
I thought if it would be possibly with Pbo and Java limitations, and then I remembered that months before you couldn’t use the teleporter when you had Focus Sash equipped on a Cloyster, so I believe that won’t be much different to code, making it possibly.
Jiro, Lifeflows, Cheren and a few others are great designers and I’m sure they can make a great outfit for that purpose.
Making everyone look the same will make alliance impossible, and you can’t choose your target anymore.

Issues that might come with that:
“People can change their clothes once they are on CW map, so alliance is still possible” – Yeah, it is true, ppl might change their clothes, but it gonna be really, really risky, since you will always have someone near to you and a screenshot is proof enough to report those players.
“How will I know who are my allies if everyone looks the same?” – I suggest to make the names like it was before, showing your allies names and everyone else as Missing.

Five from six problems gets solved with that, but unfortunately I can’t think on anything solid to make ppl stop abusing the timer. Please give your suggestions of what can be done about that.

About the “issues that might come with that” I could only think on those at the moment, if you think on more issues on any topic, please leave it down below and let’s discuss what can be done to solve it.

Variants: With that system, two types of crews will exist. While one worries about capturing and defending the base, the second will have players who care about PvP more than Team Work, and I really believe that they can co-exist on the same Crew War mode. So the variant would be to choose the type of crew you gonna be when you create your crew, each type will have its own limitations (like maximum number of players) and rewards per level (which right now are cheaper skynets and stuffs). It is not the main suggestion, cause I don’t know if PBO can support 2 types of crew instead of just one, so I gave a more possibly choice first.

*This crew war system does not supports new/mid-players, actually is the opposite of it since the members limitations prevents you to use numbers instead of power to win.
About new/mid-players I have some crew wars ideas like Capture the flag, an actual battle royale (not a deathground like it was), Co-op between old and new players, and a few others. But I’m sure some of them won’t fit on Pbo limitations, so I didn’t see point in writing them all on Forums, but I’m open if someone wants to hear em.
**You might see problem with that system that I couldn’t see, if that happens I ask you to instead say things like “It won’t work cause of that”, say “That thing can be a problem, maybe if you change that or this it can be solved”. Be constructive, please.
***If for any reason the addition of other crew type is not possible, the system will still work with the change on the maximum of players and the crew war outfit. But unfortunately to those players who rather fight, the best solution will make another crew mode or features like a Battle Arena.
****Fix Crew War is without any doubt the most important thing to be done now, since it is the ONLY thing a player has to do in game. Please take it as a priority.


The suggestions above can (and probably needs) to be improved.
As more brains thinking about it, better will be the results.
Please leave your opinions down below and help PBO to be a better game

John_Prodmam
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:56 pm

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:18 am

Well, I think the form you wrote can work and look a lot better on CW
For the problem of Stall, I have a suggestion: It would be that I had a counter in the hour of PvP, that every time you change pokemon and that it was reached the 5 seconds of waiting the counter lowers and when Zero that counter the player was derubado of Cw and can not get on the Cw map that day.
More to succeed had to be all automatic so as not to have any allegations of abuse of mod.

LightYg
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:18 am

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:50 am

Your entire text can be belied with this week's cw
At the time of the cw, there were 27 - 30 players online, we were 7 on illusion, there was no one else from other crews and so we got all the tokens
Last edited by LightYg on Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

DodoPS
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:35 pm

Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:37 am

LightYg wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:50 am
Your entire text can be belied with this week's cw
At the time of the cw, there were 27 - 30 players online, we were in Illusion 7, there was no one else crews and so we got all the tokens
ye, they're not going so they can say "cw is unbalanced", i saw 40 on and only us at cw too, only few go3cs going
btw all the respect for go3c

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JohannES14
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:51 pm

Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:54 am

At first... John_HomemOrgulhoso, what derubado means?

Well, I think this 10-15 members is bs, with all the respect.

Illusion players were always loyal to this game and we dont feel like disbanding. So, like I have said in discord:

Make max 10 for CW instead.
Like max 10 players can register for CW everyday.
#Former Moderator
#Illusion Leader
#Second in First Weekend Tourney 2017
#Champion of Halloween Tourney 2017

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LifeFlows
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 1:37 am

Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:45 am

On the issue of dissolving current crew system to impose new max. number of crew members:

I think it's more viable to build upon JohannES14's idea to set soft limits on CW entry:
"Make max 10 for CW instead.
Like max 10 players can register for CW everyday."


I think the suggestion above is more viable to adopt in long term.



Dissolution of current crew system just to impose new hard limits on number of members poses 2 fundamental problems.


1. It offers no guarantee or confidence that crews will last long with arbitrary number of members.
Please indulge along with me about following hypothetical situations:
In a rather grim prospect of future, what if the community finds that optimal number of members would be 3 instead of 10 or 15?
Do we need to break the crews again to fit into that bill or requirement?

Or, through miraculous efforts, what if PBO sees a surge in number of players?
If we see ~100 or even more players participating in CW, obviously 10-15 limit may not be enough to accommodate that many players in a CW.
Do we have to revert back to 25 limits or even more as PBO experiences every single subtle change in player base?

What could possibly prevent the game system from further shifting number of members due to changes in PBO, if it has done so once already?



2. Dissolution of crew based on their current success is basically leaving a following phone message to any prospective players:
"Heyyyy, congrats on being successful in current CW scenes. By the way, that's why we gonna sledge-hammer you next week since it's not fair to everyone!"

Any MMO games cannot last long on an egalitarian ideology to split the benefits and fruits of a particular group's hard labor equally among all players:
if the current crew system started with the same start line for all participants (equal opportunities),
and if there were no foul plays involved in the upbringing process (fair competition),
any society that supports grand idea of liberty has to respect that group's earnings and success.

Otherwise, overturning the entire system based on the end-result is like a communist society
where everyone, in the end, receives equal (practically no) results without consideration of individual inputs or efforts in the process.

How can any future players motivate themselves to build successful crews at all
if it's going to get dissolved, sooner or later, on the ground of their very own success?





So, I have made myself abundantly clear on the topic of dissolving current crew to form a new.

Then, why is JohannES14's idea more viable?

It offers a flexible, yet dynamic tool for the game developers to change CW system without negative implications.
Changing the hard limit of the crew just for the purpose of re-balancing CW scenes is a far too rigid, invasive, and potentially detrimental intervention
with so many strings (or implications) attached as I have explained in paragraphs above.





Alternatively, I want to take Joh's idea even further: a dynamic limit on number of players entering CW maps in accordance with the crew size.

Basically, the level 1, begginer's crew will enable all members of the crew to enter the CW map.
the middle-sized crew will allow majority of all members to enter the CW.
The final level, established crew will enable only lower fractions of players entering the CW.

The increments in allotments of crew members in a CW map from the new, fledging crew to the more established, full-sized crew can be adjusted accordingly
without worrying about permanent implications from setting limits on crew membership.


So, for example, if 13 members of Illusion or RP (50% of its 25 capacity) already entered a CW map,
then the rest of each crew have to sit out until a member loses out of a battle to free up a space,
while the newer crews like Union can have as many as 10 members at once, opening up for more opportunities for smaller crews.

This also opens up a possibility for very dynamic, interesting modes for future CW.
For example, one day, a "Joker day" can be declared to intensify this asymmetric entry limits of number of bigger crew's members in a CW map,
essentially creating a dynamic scene where bigger crews, for that day, have to take uphill battles.
(Illusion and RP - 5 members each, Union - 10 members)

This soft limit on CW entry can also promote new, fun, ever-challenging strategies for both small and big crews.
Due to leftover participants in any given time, bigger crews will have to coordinate rotation of its members to cope with this soft-limits on CW entries like a real battle:
a team entering a CW map at once, while the other inside the map bailing out to renew their massive momentum for a push;
a deliberation between accepting immediate influx of backups without regards to their skill levels just to fill the number in a dire defensive situation,
or holding out for veteran reinforcements to arrive from their previous defeats inside the CW map.
(This experience might be enhanced if CW teleporter is placed farther away from the pokecenter,
to create this distinction for an immediate backup group on standby near the NPC, or a group running for a long distance from the pokecenter)



This dynamic system, for now, also doesn't have to be automatic.
For now, since there are only handful number of crews at the moment,
every crew with intention of participating in CWs can submit an application on the forum, etc.
This process is needed to weed-out any crews created without competitive scenes in mind.

Then, admins only need to approve those crews with applications, to assign specific entry limits into a CW map.




On a side note, job systems can be tied to CW systems to diversify the roles of players in this new CW scenes.
For example, one job ("rogue") can activate invisibility for 3 seconds on a CW map to avoid detection or challenges from other players temporarily.
Another job ("Cleric") can use 1~3 potions in total to revive up to 3 pokemons on a CW map between battles
(on an assumption that such potion items are disabled for the rest in future CW maps and its usage depending on job skills)
while "Herbalist" can use 1~6 potions in total to replenish HP or cure status-ailments.
"Berserker" can boost their pokemons' ATK stats (1~5%) in battles on a CW map,
while "Mage" can boost their pokemons' SP ATK (1~5%) in battles on a CW map, etc.

I'm sure there are so much more creative and crazy fun ideas about the jobs from other players,
so I would leave such designs to more talented players,
but I think it would be fun to tie this job system to CW system with soft limit of entry,
to further enhance this strategic choices and questions within CWs
(do we need more clerics, or rogues in our offense right now? kinds of questions)

Naturally, this would motivate crews to grow into larger ones,
as bigger crews have more ppl with jobs to employ more tactical options in CWs.




Also, in consideration of CW topics, I have also created a thread for a discussion of potential lvl 50 caps, possibly with 3v3 in CWs:
http://pokemonblazeonline.com/forums/vi ... f=16&t=340

In combination of my ideas from the thread above and from this post,
I think PBO can display strong potential to create a very promising set of CW modes for everyone to enjoy on a long term.

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BADT
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:57 am

Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:08 am

JohannES14 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:54 am
At first... John_HomemOrgulhoso, what derubado means?

Well, I think this 10-15 members is bs, with all the respect.

Illusion players were always loyal to this game and we dont feel like disbanding. So, like I have said in discord:

Make max 10 for CW instead.
Like max 10 players can register for CW everyday.
Im totally agree with Johann, because Illusion exists since day 1 from crew update-. But its right CW need a change!
I like the combination from Life´s and Johann´s idea.
LifeFlows wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:45 am

So, for example, if 13 members of Illusion or RP (50% of its 25 capacity) already entered a CW map,
then the rest of each crew have to sit out until a member loses out of a battle to free up a space,
while the newer crews like Union can have as many as 10 members at once, opening up for more opportunities for smaller crews.

This also opens up a possibility for very dynamic, interesting modes for future CW.

ShadowIX
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:39 pm

Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:28 am

Registering 10 players instead of having 10 players in your crew means, Illusion will always register 10 players and other crews will still remain with 3 players each , more or less, if they even bother to go.
There isn't enough players to have 25 players in each crew, its simply impossible right now. When I think of crew wars, I think of 10 v 10 v 8 or something, not 13 v 3 v 2. Don't say to recruit more, because there are reasons why players left in the past, which I highly doubt they will return now. Not to mention, newer players don't always have possibility to join crew wars due to their timezone.

Only solutions I can think of is remove "crew wars" and make it free-for-all for now OR instead of having 1 big crew and 2 smaller ones, turn them into 5 full small crews.
You can say player base can increase, we have seen that happen since November, few months later we had crew wars, it was really successful, 4 crews were going, 2 big crews and 2 middle sized crews. That was why crew wars was fun, but if players quit, more than 60% of those players that went to cws do not play anymore, that is when changes are required, to bring that element of fun back.

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BADT
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:57 am

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:22 pm

If we gonna have smaller crews Illusion will always have then 15 members active and others like 3-5 then they will merge or doing alliance ....
then we should register 5 ppl from crew then kkkkkkkkk
if u cant manage to have 10 active players - you cant lead a crew of 15 members then. And we are not always 10+ in CW but its true our crew/members are the most actives one in game
ShadowIX wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:28 am
Don't say to recruit more, because there are reasons why players left in the past, which I highly doubt they will return now. Not to mention, newer players don't always have possibility to join crew wars due to their timezone.
You right but , its the only way to keep a crew alive. we recruited many newbies ingame, taught them how to beat gyms fast , helped them with quests and with their pokebuilds. Some stay some leave . But that helps the community to grow. Best example " Altron " former Illusion member. Now he created his own crew " Union " and trying to get strong :D

ShadowIX
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:39 pm

Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:26 pm

It's not about managing a crew with 5 active players. Time has shown that 1337 and FrostFire were active at a certain point, sometimes even dominating crew wars, hell, even one of Illusion leaders joined us. Thing is,
lets assume I was the guy doing it, and since u mentioned Altron, I will name him, every crew war, I was targetting him just coz I can 6-0 him easily, which after 1 to 3 days trying in cws, he will give up for sure. So in this case, as Lifeflows mentioned in other threads, we need to find a way to include new players to enjoy going to cws, and not be farmed.

What game needs is a balance, and not 1 dominating crew, after 2 months of cws or so, there always was that one dominating crew, either 1337 or Illusion, but it was always one sided.
Also, if you guys wanted competition, you were already outnumbering every other crew, you did not have to invite players from Sekzy crew. Let's assume you invited 5- 7 players from there, I don't have the numbers. Those 5 guys can already take down another crew on their own.
You guys are playing to dominate the game, and that is okay I guess, everyone wants to be the best, but don't expect other crews to show up when there is nothing to fight for anymore.

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